Womhoops Guru

Mel Greenberg covered college and professional women’s basketball for the Philadelphia Inquirer, where he worked for 40 plus years. Greenberg pioneered national coverage of the game, including the original Top 25 women's college poll. His knowledge has earned him nicknames such as "The Guru" and "The Godfather," as well as induction into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in 2007.

Sunday, October 28, 2012

Guru's College Report: Associated Press Preseason Poll Trivia

By Mel Greenberg

Well, the season has arrived at the ballot box with Saturday's release of the 37th Associated Press preseason poll, though action on the court won't officially begin until Nov. 9.

Doug Feinberg had tidbits in his wire story to accompany the poll but now that the Guru has spent the wee hours and deepening into daylight updating the database, there is lots more to add to the report since the internet has no limits.

Baylor continues last season's string, now being listed No. 1 for 20 straight weeks after going wire-to-wire last season with a 40-0 record on the way to the Bears' second NCAA title and first since 2005.

The change of 75 coaches at Division I schools, including twice at Mississippi since the season ends, is reflected in the poll because four coaches are making first-time appearances, though all their teams have been in the rankings in the past.

The Guru will have lots more to say about Tennessee below, but to continue here, Holly Warlick, who succeeded her boss Pat Summitt, now the Lady Vols coach emeritus, becomes the 30th woman to play for an AP ranked team and also coach one while she is also the seventh to do so at the same school.

If the email the Guru sent to himself comes through with the attachment, the list will be way down below.

Two of the four new coaches cannot achieve the same status as Warlick since they are males, though at some point the Guru may revisit the database and see which in the entire group played on AP ranked men's teams.

At St. John's, which is ranked 14th, Joe Tartamella moved up after Kim Barnes Arico left for Michigan, while Jim Littell was promoted almost a year ago and did an outstanding job healing Oklahoma State in the wake of the tragic death of head coach Kurt Budke and his assistant Miranda Serna in a plane crash while on a recruiting trip last November.

The team went on to win the WNIT, beating James Madison.

Lindsay Gottlieb is in the poll for the first time as head coach of California, which she returned a year ago after Joanne Boyle left for Virginia. She had been the Bears' associate head coach in the past.

She played at Brown, which has never been ranked, though at the end of last season three-time champion Princeton became the first Ivy team to break into the AP Poll and while the Tigers are picked to win an unprecedented fourth straight trophy, just as a year ago they start out way back in the pack in the voting.

Overall 255 coaches have had teams in the poll, including five who were part of co-head coach tandems in terms of counting individuals.

Louisiana Tech's Sonja Hogg and Leon Barmore, both Hall of Famers, had teams ranked in that capacity, but their listing in the database for this count is omitted because they also had rankings with the Lady Techsters when serving as coach in a single capacity.

Conference movement has made itself felt within the ranking representation, though next summer there will be seimsmic shifts in terms of teams with significant poll histories switching leagues.

At the moment, the count in the preseason vote shows the Big East and Southeastern Conference with five teams; the Big 12, Atlantic Coast, and Big Ten with four each; while the Pac-12 has two teams. Delaware, the only team making a first-ever preseason appearance, is also the lone mid-major and represents the Colonial Athletic Association.

The Blue Hens had a landmark season being led by Elena Delle Donne, the nation's top scorer who returns for one more go round. So does Notre Dame's Skylar Diggins and Baylor's Brittney Griner, who all are expected to be the top three picks in the next WNBA draft and will probably fill three of the five slots Tuesday when the AP preseason all-America team is announced.

Delaware will be challenged early in the Preseason NIT because on the Blue Hens' side of the bracket are North Carolina and Georgetown, which did not get ranked, but received votes. The Blue Hens would have to play both squads to move forward into the championship in the early season competition.

The conference count would be different had not movement occurred last summer because No. 17 West Virginia went from the Big East to Big 12, Texas A&M went from the Big 12 to the SEC, and if one went back to a year ago, Nebraska, which is in an AP preseason poll for only the second time, shifted from the Big 12 to the Big Ten.

If negotiations succeed, a year from now Notre Dame could make a quicker move from the Big East to the Atlantic Coast Conference. Oldtime rivals Old Dominion and Louisiana Tech are making shifts but while it has been a while since their poll appearances, they will be taking a heavy dose of numbers when they make their moves to new conferences.

It should be noted, though, in the Guru's database, there are two conference categories -- current affiliation and affiliation at the time of the ranking.

Loaded With Fame

The preseason poll has a nice collection of coaches in the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Tenn. Ohio State's Jim Foster and Texas A&M's Gary Blair will be part of next summer's class, while Georgia's Andy Landers, Notre Dame's Muffet McGraw, Stanford's Tara VanDerveer, Tennessee's Holly Warlick, Baylor's Kim Mulkey, and Connecticut's Geno Auriemma, are already inductees and Ariemma is also in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Mass., as is VanDerveer.

Revolving Door

Besides Princeton (24), other schools in the final poll who failed to make a return appearance for now are St. Bonaventure (21), which made its debut; Wisconsin-Green Bay (10), Georgetown, (17) Rutgers (23), and South Carolina (25), which became the second school under legendary Dawn Staley to get ranked following her stint at Temple in her hometown of Philadelphia.

Replacing them are Oklahoma, California, Vanderbilt, West Virginia, Oklahoma State, and DePaul.

Between seasons among the teams still continuing with AP appearances, there have major shifts in both directions. Purdue slipped from 13th to 21st, Miami, which graduated the duo of Shenise Johnson and Riquna Williams to the WNBA, plunged from 8 to 24, Georgia Tech dropped from 15 to 22, but in the opposite direction, Cal came roaring back from nowhere to 13, Vanderbilt also emerged from unranked status and landed at 16, while Louisville jumped from 19 to 9 and Georgia made a smiliar 10 step jump from 20 to 10.

Odds And Ends

Nebraska's last preseason appearance was its first since the 1999-2000 season.

North Carolina's 10 straight streak of landing in the opening poll was stopped by the media panel of 40 voters, though, obviously, not all of them.

Penn State ties a high of landing No. 8, which occurred in 2003-04, the senior year of Kelly Mazzante, though the all-time preseason slot for the Lady Lions was third at the front end of 1991-92.

Texas, also among the others receving votes, matched the Tar Heels with a 10-year run ended in terms of the preseason list. Duke has been in 18 straight preseason votes and has been in the top 10 for 13 times in a row to start play. Kentucky's nod at sixth is an all-time high for the Wildcats in the initial balotting.

Stanford has been in 13 straight and 25 of 26 preseason polls, the streak marred in 1999-2000.

This is Connecticut's 23 straight appearance and the Huskies are the only team to be in the Top five in all 50 weeks since the decade counter flipped in the first week of January, 2010.

In terms of total apperances in the preseason polls, Tennessee missed just the preseason of the very first-ever poll, in November, 1976, and leads with 36 straight. Georgia is second with 31 appearances, Texas has 29, Louisiana Tech has 27, followed by Maryland and Stanford (25 each), Rutgers (24), Connecticut and Vanderbilt (23), LSU (22), North Carolina and North Carolina State, and Old Dominion (20), then Duke, Purdue and Virginia (19 each).

Tennessee has 34 top 10 appearances. Until Saturday's vote, in which they Lady Vols are 20th, the only other time out of the Top 10 was 14th at the start of the 1984-85 season.

Georgia and Stanford are next with 21 Top 10 preseason rankings, followed by Connecticut and Louisiana Tech (20), then Duke and Texas (14).

In terms of Top Five appearances Tennessee dominates with 29 preseason rankings, followed by Connecticut (16), which has gone ahead of Louisiana Tech (15), followed by Georgia and Stanford (12).

Tennessee was first 12 times and UConn eight and then there is a deep drop in the totals through the 11 other teams, though one of the seasons the Lady Vols and Lady Techsters were tied for No. 1 at the outset and played each other right off the bat, making it the only time No. 1 played No. 1.

Hard Times For Lady Vols

It is either a tough pill to swallow or a great challenge to accept in terms of Tennessee's No. 20, which, in a sense makes Warlick the frontrunner for the Maggie Dixon Division I rookie coach of the year at the outset, though she did serve 27 years under Summitt.

The reason is with expectations so low because of the departures of all five starters, if Tennessee can be anything close to its past self at the end of the season, one envisions a groundswell from the WBCA committee.

But a No. 20 slot also puts Tennessee on a ledge, though since the early 1990s, the expansion to Top 25 provides a cushion. The Vols almost fell there at the end of the disastrous 2008-09 season when the then-defending champions hit 19 and settled for 18 the final two weeks of the season.

Walking a poll tightrope, some early opponents for the Lady Vols include Georgia Tech on the road, along with a stop at Miami, a visit from Middle Tennessee and North Carolina, then on to Texas and Baylor before Stanford and Rutgers visit in late December.

If Tennessee survives that but is still lowly ranked, then it must deal with a Southeastern Conference gauntlet of Kentucky, Georgia, Texas A&M, and Vanderbilt, while several unranked conference opponents will offer anything but a piece of cake.

Had there been a postseason vote at the end of 2009 -- the AP season ends before the NCAA begins -- the squad, which fell in the first round of the NCAA tournament, might have dropped out altogether, which is what did occur in the coaches' poll.

Tennessee has missed only 14 appearances, the first-ever poll, three in 1981-82 when they hit 20, dropped out for three weeks, and then returned at 20.

In 1984-85, the year after Summitt coached USA to an Olympic gold medal in Los Angeles, there was a 10-week hiatus. At that point, Tennessee was collecting Final Four appearances, but didn't land the first of eight brass rings until 86-87.

That season was part of a run that included an incredible 383 straight Top 10 appearances until the 2008-09 slump arrived.

Coaching Milestones In AP Ranking Appearances

While Summitt's decision to step aside, affected by her ongoing battle against early onset dementia, Alzheimer's type, that she revealed a year ago in late August, removes her from the top of the active list in the poll, she is still untouchable on the alltime list with 618 appearances.

Georgia's Andy Landers now takes over the top of the active list at 480 with the opening ranking. Stanford's Tara VanDerveer is No. 2 at 427 and this week she hits 400 with the Cardinal, good enough for No. 3 behind Summitt and Landers for most rankings with one team.

C. Vivian Stringer, who leads a small group of coaches with three different schools in the poll, is third at 407, while UConn's Auriemma is fourth on the active list at 387 and fifth behind former Texas coach Jody Conradt, another multi-hall of famer, who had 395 all with the Longhorns, while all his are with the Huskies.

Speaking of Texas, several other coaches who were high on the all-time list, have also departed since the end of last season, specifically the Longhorns' Gail Goestenkors, who is 13th at 295, including her time at Duke.

Hall of Famer Debbie Ryan, who left Virginia prior to last season, is ninth at 328 on the all-time list, while North Carolina's Sylvia Hatchell, who had been posied to pass her former ACC rival, is still tied with another one -- the late North Carolina State coach Kay Yow at 10th with 326.

Incidentally, in the upper career ranking lists there is a string of coaches, Auriemma (6th), Foster (7th), former Penn State coach Rene Portland (8), and Ryan (9th), all with ties to the hey day of Cathy Rush and the Mighty Macs of Immaculata.

Retired coach Theresa Grentz (Rutgers, Illinois) is 22nd on the list, while Notre Dame's Muffet McGraw is 20th at 236.

Philly Locals Playing Big-Timers

In terms of teams that got ranked, here's who the philly area teams will be seeing:

Temple goes to Nebraska (18) the first weekend of the season, and while no one else is ranked right now on the Owls' slate, Rutgers and Georgetown have potential, as does Michigan State.

La Salle goes to North Carolina, Georgetown and Rutgers, who all got votes, while Drexel goes to South Carolina, an also-ran, and plays Delaware home-and-home in the CAA.

Penn could meet Iowa State in the Cyclones' tournament and, of course, will go home-and-home with rank-worthy Princeton in the Ivy League. The Quakers also host Virginia on Nov. 12th at The Palestra.

Villanova meets Delaware in Dartmouth's tournament, and the Wildcats must see the likes of the Big East ranking or potential ranking brigade of UConn, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Louisville, St. John's, DePaul, as well as Georgetown.

St. Joseph's. meanwhile, which will host the first three rounds of the Atlantic 10, opens at home with Princeton, hosts Maryland, and travels to UCLA.

Rutgers' outside schedule features an opening weekend trip to Georgia, a road stop at Princeton in a neighborhood scrum, while the Scarlet Knights also meet Louisiana Tech in the Maggie Dixon Classic in Madison Square Garden. They also host Miami and travel to Tennessee.

Delaware, besides the teams mentioned, visits St. John's.

Penn State battles three ranked teams in the Big Ten in terms of Nebraska, Ohio State, and Purdue. The Lady Lions, who are picked to win the conference, also will be traveling to Texas A&M, Miami, and Connecticut.

Incidentally, Division II power Holy Family will be traveling to play Connecticut Nov. 7 in Hartford.

If the opponents seem thin on some of the schedules mentioned, it is not to say that many teams the locals face could end up delivering value.

A year ago, Delaware's schedule looked good enough for an RPI in the 30s, worthy enough, but many of the Blue Hens' opponents had fantastic seasons resulting in a nonconference RPI of No. 1 in the nation at the beginning of January.

That provided enough weight to land a No. 4 seed in the NCAA tournament and considering the Blue Hens host two early rounds, they will be looking to do likewise to land a good slot and leap into the Sweet 16.

Here's Some of the Lists The Guru Promised:

By Mel Greenberg
Women’s Hoops Guru
(Oct. 27, 2012)

Quick hits on AP poll (week 1– for coaches’ appearances week No. 1)
(This is 633rd poll after week 1 preseason for 2012-13). (Records on pages through week 1 -- Preseason)

Coaches With Three Ranked Teams
C. Vivian Stringer (Cheyney-85), (Iowa-155), (Rutgers-167), 407
Jim Foster (St. Joe-35), (Vanderbilt-164), (Ohio St.-166), 365
Gary Blair (Stephen F. Austin-79), (Arkansas-67), (Texas A&M-120), 266
Marianne Stanley (Old Dominion-141), (Sou. Cal-24), (Stanford*-18), 183
Lin Dunn (Miami-2), (Mississippi-1), (Purdue-130), 133
Don Perrelli (Northwestern-52), (S. Conn.-20), (St. John’s-1), 73
Tom Collen (Colorado St.-34), (Louisville-17), (Arkansas-7), 58
Sharon Fanning-Otis (Kentucky-4), (Miss. St.-48), (Tn.-Chattannoga-4), 56
Debbie Yow (Florida-2), (Kentucky-21), (Oral Roberts-1), 24

Kittie Blakemore, Scott Harrelson – West Virginia 8
Sonja Hogg, Leon Barmore – Louisiana Tech 51
Jill Hutchison, Linda Fischer – Illinois St. 3
Jim Jarrett, Joyce Patterson – Georgia St. 1
Marianne Stanley, Amy Tucker – Stanford 18
Jim Bolla, Sheila Strike – UNLV 18

Coaches All Time Ranking Appearances
1.**- Pat Summitt, Tennessee – 618 (missed just 14 polls in AP history)
2. Andy Landers, Georgia – 480
3. Tara VanDerveer (2 schools – Ohio St., Stanford) – 427
4. C. Vivian Stringer (3 schools – Cheyney, Iowa, Rutgers) – 407
5. **-Jody Conradt, Texas – 395
6. Geno Auriemma, Connecticut – 387
7. Jim Foster (3 schools – St. Joseph’s, Vanderbilt, Ohio St.) – 365
8. **-Rene Portland (2 schools – St. Joseph, Penn St.) – 336
9. **-Debbie Ryan, Virginia – 328
10. Sylvia Hatchell, North Carolina – 326
10. **- Kay Yow, North Caro. St. – 326
12. **-Leon Barmore, Louisiana Tech (51-shared with Sonja Hogg) – 325
13.**- Gail Goestenkors (2 schools – Duke, Texas) – 295
14. **-Joe Ciampi, Auburn – 290
15. **-Sue Gunter (2 schools – Stephen F. Austin, LSU) – 270
16. &&-Joan Bonvicini (2 schools – Long Beach, Arizona) - 267
17. Gary Blair, (3 schools – Stephen F. Austin, Arkansas, Texas A&M) – 266
18. **-Marsha Sharp, Texas Tech – 264
19. **-Van Chancellor (2 schools – Mississippi, LSU) – 261
20. Muffet McGraw, Notre Dame – 236
21. **-Chris Weller, Maryland - 227
22. **-Theresa Grentz (2 schools – Rutgers, Illinois) – 225
23. Sherri Coale, Oklahoma 199
24. Kim Mulkey, Baylor 189
25. **-Marianne Stanley (3 schools – ODU, Southern Cal, Stanford*) – 183
26. **-Paul Sanderford (2 schools – W. Kentucky, Nebraska) – 182
27. **-Marian Washington, Kansas – 176
**-Not in college or not in as a head coach

Active Coaches-All Time AP Ranking Appearances

1. Andy Landers, Georgia – 480
2. Tara VanDerveer (2 schools – Ohio St., Stanford) – 427
3. C. Vivian Stringer (3 schools – Cheyney, Iowa, Rutgers) – 407
4. Geno Auriemma, Connecticut – 387
5. Jim Foster (3 schools – St. Joseph’s, Vanderbilt, Ohio St.) – 365
6. Sylvia Hatchell, North Carolina – 326
7.&&--Joan Bonvicini (2 schools – Long Beach, Arizona) - 267
8. Gary Blair, (3 schools – Stephen F. Austin, Arkansas, Texas A&M) – 266
9. Muffet McGraw, Notre Dame – 236
10. Sherri Coale, Oklahoma – 199
11. Kim Mulkey, Baylor – 189
12. Joanne P. McCallie (2 schools - Michigan St., Duke) – 166
13. Melanie Balcomb (2 schools – Xavier, Vanderbilt) – 154
14. Brenda Frese (2 schools, Minnesota, Maryland) – 141
15. Kristy Curry (2 schools – Purdue, Texas Tech) – 136
16. Doug Bruno, DePaul – 136
17. Bill Fennelly, (2 schools – Toledo, Iowa St.) – 131
18. %%- Joe McKeown (2 schools – New Mexico St., Geo. Wash.) – 116
19. ==== Jim Davis, Clemson, 106
20.)))-Chris Gobrecht (Washington) - 104
21.@@@@- Cathy Inglese (2 school, Vermont, Boston College) – 98
22. !!!- Jane Albright (2 schools – N. Illinois, Wisconsin) – 96
23. Debbie Patterson, Kansas St. – 92
24. Pam Borton, Minnesota – 75
25. Charli Turner Thorne, Arizona St. – 74
26. Joanne Boyle, California (2 schools – California, Virginia) – 61
27. Tom Collen, (3 schools, Colorado St., Louisville, Arkansas) – 58
28. Sue Semrau, Florida St. – 57
29. ***-Kathy Olivier, UCLA 52
30. ^^^-Kevin McGuff, Xavier – 50
31. Mike Carey, West Virginia – 49
32. ____Terri Williams-Flournoy, Georgetown – 48
33. Matthew Mitchell, Kentucky – 46
34. Bonnie Henrickson, (2 schools -- Virginia Tech, Kansas) – 45
34. Sharon Versyp, Purdue – 45
34. Jeff Walz, Louisville – 45
37. Harry Perretta, Villanova – 44
38. Suzy Merchant, Michigan St. – 41
38. Connie Yori (Creighton, Nebraska) – 41
40. Jeff Mittie, TCU – 38
41. Agnus Berenato (2 schools – Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh) – 37
42.%=%= Matt Bollant, Wis.-Green Bay – 35
43. Lisa Stockton, Tulane – 34
44. $$$- June Daugherty (2 schools – Boise St.,Washington) – 32
45. MaChelle Joseph, Georgia Tech – 31
45. Katie Meier, Miami –31
45. Dawn Staley (Temple, South Carolina) – 31
48. Lisa Bluder (2 schools – Iowa, Drake) – 28
49. Terri Mitchell, Marquette – 25
50. Kevin Borseth, Wis.-Green Bay – 24
51. ()() Kim Barnes Arico, St. John’s 23

&&-Active at Seattle; )))-Active at Yale; $$$-Active at Washington State.; %%-Active at Northwestern; !!!-Active at Nevada; @@@@-Active at Rhode Island; ()()-Active at Michigan; ^^^-Active at Washington; ==== Active at Tennessee Tech; ____Active at Auburn; %=%= Active at Illinois.


(Played for and Coached Ranked Teams)


1. Katie Abrahamson-Henderson Missouri St. ​Georgia/Iowa
2. Cheryl Burnett​ Missouri St. ​ Kansas
3. Amanda Butler% Florida Florida
4. Nikki Caldwell UCLA Tennessee
5. Pokey Chatman%​ LSU​ ​LSU
6. June Daugherty​ Boise St./Washington ​Ohio St.
7. Nell Fortner​ Purdue/Auburn ​ Texas
8. Susie Gardner​ Arkansas​ Georgia
9. MaChelle Joseph Georgia Tech Purdue
10. Wendy Larry%​ Old Dominion Old Dominion
11. Joanne P. McCallie​ Michigan St./Duke ​ Northwestern
12. Kathy McConnell-Miller Colorado Virginia
13. Muffet McGraw​ Notre Dame​ St. Joseph’s
14. Katie Meier Miami Duke
15. Cheryl Miller%​ Southern Cal​ Southern Cal
16. Kim Mulkey​ Baylor​ Louisiana Tech
17. Mary Murphy​ Wisconsin​ Northwestern
18. Kathy Olivier​ UCLA​ UNLV
19. Carolyn Peck​ Purdue/Florida Vanderbilt
20. Laurie Pirtle​ Cincinnati​ Ohio St.
21. Jennifer Rizzotti Hartford Connecticut
22. Carol Ross%​ Florida/Mississippi ​Mississippi
23. Bev Smith%​ Oregon​ Oregon
24. Dawn Staley​ Temple​Virginia
25. Jan Ternyik ​San Francisco ​Montclair St.
26. Charli Turner Thorne​ Arizona St.​ Stanford
27. Amy Tucker*​ Stanford​ Ohio St.
28. Holly Warlick% Tennessee Tennessee
29. Coquese Washington Penn State Notre Dame
30. Terry Williams-Flournoy Georgetown Penn State

*-Filled in for Tara VanDerveer in 1995-96

%-Seven played and coached at same ranked school.

That's it for now.

-- Mel

- Posted using BlogPress from my iPad


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10:03 PM  
Blogger naql said...

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10:12 PM  
Blogger naql said...

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10:25 PM  
Blogger naql said...

زجاج سكريت
سكريت زجاج
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10:51 PM  
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9:10 PM  
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9:11 PM  
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10:28 PM  
Blogger Nino Nurmadi said...


8:02 AM  
Blogger Techno Bond said...

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3:04 PM  

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